The Old Beggar Man- Nelson (New Brunswick) known pre1855; text collected 1927 (Barry Version B); Sung 1928 (Barry A)
[From: British Ballads from Maine: Phillips Barry, Fannie Hardy Eckstorm, Mary Winslow Smyth - 1929; The Old Beggar Man- As recited (1927) and sung (1928) by Thomas Nelson of New Brunswick, Canada. Collected text by Eckstorm in 1927 (Version B); collected singing and text, 1928 (version A).
I'm giving both versions taken from Nelson (Barry A and B) below. The informant's mother, who is the source, was born c. 1833 in Ireland and came to New Brunswick when she was a child (c. 1843). It's fairly safe to say she learned it by 1855 and transmitted it to her children. Although she was from Ireland, it was not stated that she learned it there, or, the source.
Barry's notes follow.
R. Matteson 2012, 2014]
This is the first time that "Hind Horn" has been recorded in America, and we are particularly fortunate in getting both a good text and the air from the same person. The copy above was taken down, in 1928, by Mrs. Eckstorm, from Mr. Nelson's singing. we have also another copy, taken down in 1927 by Miss Smyth, from Mr. Nelson's recitation. There are variations, as would be expected in copies taken by different persons in different years; but they are hardly important enough to warrant printing both texts in full when a collation of the two is simple and satisfactory.
Knowing that this must become the standard text in this country, we have deliberately adopted three variations from the second copy for the A-text, for the sake of the sense. They will be found noted below in the twelfth, thirteenth, and fifteenth stanzas. we see no good reason why the chance variants of the same singer should not be interchangeable, when either the rhythm or the sense of a text is improved by a substitution. Yet in this ballad, as in others, the texts have been kept separate, except for these three slight changes- "guy" for "day," "he" for "they," and a misleading word omitted.
B. Collation of the two texts from Mr. T. E. Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick. The following is the spoken 1927 text, compared by stanza and line, with A.
1 Lacks the first line of the 1928 text.
Fourth line shows an important variation, commented upon below, of "hind" instead of "hele."
2 Fourth line reads, "And the virtue of this was above all else."
The rhyme, lost in recitation, is caught again in the version sung.
3 Twice "looks" instead of "bees," as sung. This line was sung several times in catching the air, but "always as "bees."
4 Line two omits "that." "Countree" used instead of "counteree," possibly the transcriber's variation; more likely rhythmic, caught in singing.
Fourth line reads, "His true love was in love with some other man-" "Man" and "wan" were rhymed, a possible indication of the Gaelic origin of "wan," with this meaning of "pale" (Irish, ban "white")
5 Line two omits "that."
6 Line two omits one "what news ?"
7 Lines one and two have "lend" instead of "give me your begging rig."
Lines three and four are transposed.
8 Line two, "it" for "they."
Line three, "quick" for "fast."
9 Whole stanza lacking in 1927 copy.
10 Line four "maid's own hand" instead of "bride's."
11 "And in her hand a glass of wine," missing the rhyme of "han'" and "man."
12 Line three, as printed. What he sang was "Saying, Where got you this, by sea or by land," which throws the question to Horn himself and ruins the sense. Ballad singers have a way of introducing a direct quotation with the word "saying," which very often is spoken, not sung. It takes the place of quotation marks in print and often is a warning of a change of speaker. A transcriber who understands this use would be justified in not recording the word at all unless it is significant and properly used.
13 Line three, as printed in A. He sang "courting day" which with "wedding day" as a rhyme was unpleasant; but he recited "courting gay."
14 No change in this stanza.
15 Line two, as printed in A. He sang it, "The diner's coat they did let fall," clearly an error of sense.
The most important difference in the texts is the change from "hind," to "hele." in 1927 Mr. Nelson said:
"Until I became a hind and his horn,"
and he pronounced "hind" with a short vowel, just as Mrs. F. W. Morse did in speaking of "Hind Horn"--possibly Irish usage. But in 1928, Mr. Nelson, in singing, repeatedly said "hele," "hale," "heel" or "hael," or perhaps "heil," instead of "hind." His vowel was not clear and we did not determine it; nor could we understand it. But it does not do to worry a ballad singer; what you do not understand, he often does not understand any better.
****
These texts present a rather unusual version of the Scotch form, Child G. For the most part the tale runs true. Although "Scotland," is changed to "Ireland," the "begging-weed," of the original becomes a "begging-rig," and the "riding-steed" is now a "riding-stage," yet both Saints Peter and Paul are retained. The beggar's "cloutie cloak," patched and old, becomes a "diner's coat," whatever that may be, and the last two lines are different. But in the main this is a good rendering of Child G, recorded by Kinloch, who took it down "from the recitation of my niece, M. Kinnear, 28 Aug. 1926." (Ancient Scottish Ballads, p. 135.) Perhaps it is even more like Child H, from Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland, II, 268. so far as it goes, it is not unlike Gavin Greig's texts from the northeast of Scotland, though it lacks the first part of his best records.
The sources used by Child are exclusively Scotch, yet the ballad was known in Ireland. Mrs. Fred W. Morse of Isleford, whose childhood was spent in southeastern Ireland, says that she often heard the song sung there, and that since coming to this country she has heard it sung in Medford, Mass., by a man from Waterford, Ireland, and also by girl, both of whom obtained it from a source different from her own. When she was a child, near Waterford, two wandering minstrels, old Andy and Tommy Hearn, used to sing this song. They sang it differently, and she recalls hearing them argue long and hotly about the ballad and the right way to sing it, each being entirely sure that the other had it all wrong. Tommy played the fiddle; the jew's-harp was Andy's instrument of music. They were great wanderers and great drunkards, and they followed the harvests through England and Ireland, working just enough to get money for drink. They sang in English, Scotch, and Irish what they picked up in their travels in three countries. As a child of six years, Mrs. Morse heard them sing "Hind's Horn" and recalled that one of their chief points of difference was about Saint Peter and Saint Paul. Her grandmother used to be horrified at their quarreling so about the saints, particularly as they did it most when they were drunk on being shown a copy of Child, Mrs. Morse without hesitation picked out child A, from Motherwell, as the text the two old minstrels sang.
Capt. Charles L. Donovan of Jonesport said that he had heard "Hind Horn" sung. From a copy of Child he identified child A, from Motherwell, and Child G, from Kinloch, containing lines which were familiar.
One day he looked his ring upon,
He saw the diamonds pale and wan.
He left the sea and came to land,
And the first that he met was an olg beggar man.
(Child A 6,7)
He hoisted up his sails and hame sailed he
Until that he came to his ain countrie.
(Child G 9)
Captain Donovan said that he had heard the story in a more extended form Hind Horn took the beggar with him, and where he did not wish to go himself, he sent the beggar. The ballad ended with a duel in which Horn killed the lady's husband, she apparently having been married before Horn's arrival. She sailed to a foreign country to forget her sorrows and died there. The ring episode Captain Donovan remembered distinctly. He thought he heard the song sung by some of his sailors on shipboard. (See Addenda.)
HIND HORN (Child 17) A. "THE OLD BEGGAR MAN." Taken down from the singing of Mr. Thomas Edward Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick, September 28, 1928, who learned it of his mother, who was born in the north of Ireland, came to New Brunswick as a child, and died there about ten years ago, aged eighty-five years.
1 "Whence came ye, or from what counteree?
Whence came ye, or where were you born?"
"In Ireland I was bred and born
Until I became a Hind[1] and his horn.
2 I gave his love a gay gold watch,
That she might rule in her own counteree
And she gave him a gay gold ring,
And the virtue of that ring was above all things.
3 If this ring bees bright and true
Be sure your love is true to you
But if this ring bees pale and wan,
Your true love's in love with some other man.[2]
4 He set sail and off went he,
Until that he came to a strange counteree.
He looked at the ring it was pale and wan,
His true love was in love with some other one.
5 He set sail and back came he,
Until that he came to his own counteree,
And as he was riding along the plain,
Who should he meet but an old beggar man.
6 "What news, what news, you old beggar man?
What news, what news have you got for me?"
"No news, no news," said the old beggar man,
"But tomorrow is your true love's wedding day."
7 "You lend me your begging rig,
And I'll lend you my riding stage[3]."
"Your riding stage ain't fit for me,
Nor my begging rig ain't fit for you."
"Whether it be right, or whether it be wrong,
The begging rig they must go on.
So come tell me as fast as you can
What’s to be done with the begging rig?"
9. "As you go up yonder hill,
You may walk as fast as 'tis your will,
And when you get to yonder gate,
You may lean upon your staff with trembling step.
10 "You may beg from Peter[4] you may beg from Paul
You may beg from the highest to the lowest of them all;
But from them all you need take none
Until you come to the bride’s own hand."
11 She came trembling down the stairs,
Rings on her fingers and gold in her hair,
A glass of wine all in her hand,
Which she gave to the old beggar man.
12 He took the glass and drank the wine,
And in the glass he slipped the ring.
"O, where got you this, by sea or by land,
Or did you get it off a drowned one's hand?"
13 "Neither got I it by sea or land,
Neither did I get it off a drowned one's hand;
I got it in my courting gay,
And gave it to my love on her wedding day."
14 Rings from her fingers she did pull off,
Gold from her hair she did let fall,
Saying, "I'll go with you forevermore
And beg my bread from door to door."
15 Between the kitchen and the hall
The diner's coat he did let fall,
All a-shining in gold amongst them all,
And he was the fairest in the hall.
1. "hele" in 1928; From Barry: The most important difference in the texts is the change from "hind," to "hele." In 1927 Mr. Nelson said:
"Until I became a hind and his horn,"
and he pronounced "hind" with a short vowel, just as Mrs. F. W. Morse did in speaking of "Hind Horn"--possibly Irish usage. But in 1928, Mr. Nelson, in singing, repeatedly said "hele," "hale," "heel" or "hael," or perhaps "heil," instead of "hind." His vowel was not clear and we did not determine it; nor could we understand it. But it does not do to worry a ballad singer; what you do not understand, he often does not understand any better.
2. "one" to rhyme.
3. riding steed
4. originally "Pitt" for "Peter"
HIND HORN (Child 17) B. "THE OLD BEGGAR MAN."- from the recitation of Thomas Edward Nelson, Union Mills, New Brunswick, 1927. Stanza 9 is missing.
1 ". . . .
Whence came ye, or where were you born?"
"In Ireland I was bred and born
Until I became a hind[1] and his horn.
2 I gave his love a gay gold watch,
That she might rule in her own counteree
And she gave him a gay gold ring,
And the virtue of this was above all else.
3 If this ring looks bright and true
Be sure your love is true to you
But if this ring looks pale and wan,
Your true love's in love with some other man. [2]
4 He set sail and off went he,
Until he came to a strange countree
He looked at the ring it was pale and wan,
His true love was in love with some other man.
5 He set sail and back came he,
Until he came to his own counteree,
And as he was riding along the plain,
Who should he meet but an old beggar man.
6 "What news, what news, you old beggar man?
What news, have you got for me?"
"No news, no news," said the old beggar man,
"But tomorrow is your true love's wedding day."
7 "You lend me your begging rig,
And I'll lend you my riding stage[3]."
"Nor my begging rig ain't fit for you
Your riding stage ain't fit for me."
8 "Whether it be right, or whether it be wrong,
The begging rig they must go on.
So come tell me as quick as you can
What’s to be done with the begging rig?"
9 "You may beg from Peter[4] you may beg from Paul
You may beg from the highest to the lowest of them all;
But from them all you need take none
Until you come to the maid's own hand."
10 She came trembling down the stairs,
Rings on her fingers and gold in her hair,
And in her hand a glass of wine,
Which she gave to the old beggar man.
11 He took the glass and drank the wine,
And in the glass he slipped the ring.
"O, where got you this, by sea or by land,
Or did you get it off a drowned one's hand?"
12 "Neither got I it by sea or land,
Neither did I get it off a drowned one's hand;
I got it in my courting gay,
And gave it to my love on her wedding day."
13 Rings from her fingers she did pull off,
Gold from her hair she did let fall,
Saying, "I'll go with you forevermore
And beg my bread from door to door."
14 Between the kitchen and the hall
The diner's coat he did let fall,
All a-shining in gold amongst them all,
And he was the fairest in the hall.
1. "hele" in 1928.
2. "one" to rhyme.
3. riding steed
4 originally "Pitt" for "Peter"