Recordings & Info: 7V. Ripest Apple (Ripest of Apples)
Recordings & Info: 7V. Ripest Apple (Ripest of Apples)
7V. Ripest Apple
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[From: Here's Luck to a Man ... An Anthology of Gypsy Songs & Music from South-East England. Yates notes.
22 - Ripest Apples (Roud 146, Sharp 113)
Sung by Joe Jones, St Mary Cray, Kent. Yates
'Pretty maiden, pretty maiden, I've come to court you,
It's your favour I might gain.
Pretty maiden, pretty maiden, I've come to court you,
But if your answer's yes or no.'
'Pretty maiden, pretty maiden, I have gold, I've silver.'
'What cares I for your house and land?
For it's what cares I for the world of pleasure?
But all I wants is an honest young man.'
Spoken: Listen then...play
'For it's apples is ripe, but they soon gets rotten.
A young man's love that soon grows cold.
For it's what cares I for the world of pleasure?
But all I wants is an honest young man.'
Cecil Sharp linked this fragmentary song with another, titled Twenty, Eighteen, that had been collected by Lucy Broadwood (English County Songs 1893. p.90), and falls within the Oh, no John family. A version that I recorded from the late Mabs Hall of Sussex includes the Twenty, Eighteen verse (see the Veteran cassette Ripest Apples - VT107), and George Townshend (Sussex) also sings it on Musical Traditions MT CD 304.
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BrownIII 12, "Madam, I Have Gold and Silver" (1 text, starting with "Wheel of Fortune" but ending with a "Ripest of Apples" verse and ending with a Riley stanza, from this or some other ballad of this type)
JHCox 92, "A Pretty Fair Maid" (2 texts plus mention of 4 more; the "B" text includes stanzas from "Wheel of Fortune (Dublin City, Spanish Lady)")
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Pride Of The Season (Mary Humphreys) See also:
As I Walkèd Forth In The Pride Of The Season
(Collected by Kenneth Peacock)
As I walked forth in the pride of the season,
Thinking some pleasure there for to see;
Who should I spy but a lovely young damsel,
Sitting all alone under a green shady tree.
I said, me duck, me dear and me darling,
There's no tongue can tell how well I do love thee;
You shan't want for love or affection,
If you will fix your attention on me.
She said, Young man you are better provided,
For I am a poor girl of such low degree;
Your friends and relations will always be scolding,
So in my low station contented I will be.
I am a young man as you are a virgin,
Married unto you contented I will be;
Don't talk of friends' love or any relations,
I have no riches at all to give to thee.
So she sat herself down and he sat himself by her,
They fell a-rifling in each others arms;
With sweet milk and kisses and fonder embraces,
They tasted the fruits of each others charms.
This couple fell asleep for the space of three hours,
Under the youth of a shady green tree;
But when he awoke and he found her no virgin,
Married unto you I never will be.
O, when I laid my head on that young man's pillow,
Thinking that pillow it would be my own;
Ah me poor girl must wear the green willow,
Young men are false as it's very well known.
Ripest of apples and soon they are rotten,
Hottest of love and soon it is cold;
Young men's vows are soon forgotten,
Take care pretty young maids don't ever be controlled.
So come all you fair maids and by me take a warning,
Don't ever trust a young man in any degree;
For when he has tasted the fruits of your garden,
Yours will leave you as mine has left me.
####.... Author unknown. Traditional Newfoundland song ....####
This variant was recorded by Mary Humphreys (Sharp Practice, ©2003, Wild Goose Records).
A variant was collected in 1958 from Mrs Freeman Bennett [1908-2006] of St Paul's, NL, by Kenneth Peacock and published with the title As I Walkèd Forth In The Pride Of The Season in Songs Of The Newfoundland Outports, Volume 2, pp.422-423, by The National Museum of Canada (1965) Crown Copyrights Reserved.
670
As I Walkèd Forth In The Pride Of The Season
(Kenneth Peacock)
See also: Pride Of The Season (Mary Humphreys)
As I walkèd forth in the pride of the season,
Thinking some pastime there for to see;
Who should I spy but a lovely fair damsel,
Sitting all alone under a shady green tree.
I said, "Me dear, me duck, and me darling,
There's no tongue can tell how well I love thee;
You shan't want for love or for money,
If you will affix your affection on me."
She says, "Kind sir, you are better providing,
I am a poor girl and so low degree;
Your friends and relations will always be scolding,
And in my low station contented I will be."
"I am a young man as thou art a virgin,
Married unto you content I will be;
Don't talk of friends, love, or any relations,
I have no riches at all to give thee."
She sat herself down and I sat myself by her,
We fell a-rifling in each other's arms;
With sweet milk and kisses and fonder embraces,
We tasted the fruit of each other's charms.
This couple fell asleep for the space of three hours,
In under the youth of a shady green tree;
When he awoke and he found her no virgin,
"Married unto you I never will be."
As I lay my head on that young man's pillow,
Thinking the pillow it would be my own;
But me, a poor girl, must wear the green willow,
Young men are false and it's very well known.
Come all you pretty fair maids
now by me take a warning,
Don't never trust a young man in any degree;
For when they have tasted
the sweet fruits of your garden,
Yours will go leave you as mine has leaved me.
Ripest of apples and soon they are rotten,
Hottest of love and soon it is cold;
Young men's vows are soonly forgotten,
Take care, pretty fair maid,
don't never be controlled.
####.... Author unknown. Traditional Newfoundland ballad ....####
Collected by Kenneth Peacock in 1958 from Mrs Freeman Bennett [1908-2006] of St Paul's, NL, and published in Songs Of The Newfoundland Outports, Volume 2, pp.422-423, by The National Museum of Canada (1965) Crown Copyrights Reserved.
Kenneth Peacock noted that this lament with its lovely Dorian tune is one of the most beautiful and rare of the Newfoundland collection. Wearing the green willow (verse 7) is a sign of mourning or great personal grief. If anyone still has doubts about the use of the garden as a fertility or sexual symbol, line three of verse 8 clears up the matter in so many words.
As I Walked Forth in the Pride of the Season
DESCRIPTION: A man promises to marry a maid he meets. He says he is poor and her "low degree" is no cause for concern. They kiss and fall asleep. When he wakes he finds her not a virgin and says they'll never marry.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1958 (Peacock)
KEYWORDS: grief courting sex virginity warning floatingverses
FOUND IN: Canada(Newf)
REFERENCES (1 citation):
Peacock, pp. 422-423, "As I Walked Forth in the Pride of the Season" (1 text, 1 tune)
ST Pea422 (Partial)
Roud #9785
RECORDINGS:
Mrs Bennett Freeman, "As I Walked Forth in the Pride of the Season" (on PeacockCDROM)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
The False Young Man
NOTES: [Despite Peacock's subtitle "The False Young Man," this is] not "The False Young Man (The Rose in the Garden, As I Walked Out)." - BS
Peacock's final stanza is the floating "ripest of apples" lyric; it's not clear which of the several songs which include the verse is the source. - RBW
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Wheel of Fortune (Dublin City, Spanish Lady)
DESCRIPTION: The young man comes to the young woman and asks her to wed. He offers her gold, silver, and land. She tells him she is not interested in these; "all I want is a (good young/handsome) man." That being offered, the two agree to marry
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1883 (Jackson/Burne)
KEYWORDS: courting marriage money virtue playparty
FOUND IN: Britain(England(South,West),Scotland(Aber)) US(Ap,MA,MW,SE,So,SW) Canada(Ont) Ireland
REFERENCES (37 citations):
GreigDuncan4 746, "The Spanish Lady" (9 texts, 8 tunes)
GreigDuncan8 1588, "There's a Lady Over Yonder" (1 fragment, 1 tune)
Stewart-Queen, p. 28, "Owre yon Hill" (1 text, 1 tune)
Williams-Thames, pp. 196-197, "March Away" (1 text) (also Wiltshire-WSRO Wt 458)
Wiltshire-WSRO Ox 225, "Yonder Sits a Pretty Little Creature" (1 text)
Belden, pp. 506-507, "Madam, I Have Gold and Silver" (1 text)
Eddy 98, "Spanish Lady" (1 text); Eddy 131, "The Quaker's Wooing" (1 text, 1 tune); possibly Eddy 132, "The Sober Quaker" (1 text, 1 tune)
Gardner/Chickering 173, "The Wooing" (2 texts, the "A" text being "The Courting Case" and "B" being probably this piece)
Flanders/Brown, pp. 154-155, "Yonder Hill There Is a Widow" (1 text, 1 tune)
Reeves-Sharp 69, "Ripest Apples" (1 text)
SharpAp 205, "Come My Little Roving Sailor" (3 texts, 3 tunes)
Sharp/Karpeles-80E 55, "Come, My Little Roving Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune)
Sandburg, p. 71, "The Quaker's Wooing" (1 text, 1 tune); also Sandburg, p. 144, "Kind Miss" (1 text, 1 tune, primarily this piece but with one verse of "The Drowsy Sleeper")
Botkin-AmFolklr, pp. 804-805, "There She Stands, a Lovely Creature" (1 text, 1 tune)
SHenry H532, p. 367, "Tarry Trousers" (1 text, 1 tune -- a curious version in which, after all the business about riches and a good young man, the girl finally sends the lad off by saying she has a sailor love)
OLochlainn-More 79A, "The Tarry Trousers" (1 text, 1 tune)
BrownIII 12, "Madam, I Have Gold and Silver" (1 text, starting with this song but ending with a "Ripest of Apples" verse and ending with a Riley stanza)
BrownSchinhanV 12, "Madam, I have Gold and Silver" (1 tune plus a text excerpt)
Hudson 37, pp. 151-152, "Annie Girl" (1 text, which conflates 2 verses of "The Drowsy Sleeper" [Laws M4], 2 or 3 of "Wheel of Fortune (Dublin City, Spanish Lady)" or "No, John, No: or similar, and 3 verses probably of "Pretty Fair Maid (The Maiden in the Garden; The Broken Token)" [Laws N42])
JHCox 158, "The Spanish Lady" (1 text)
Boswell/Wolfe 45, pp. 79-80, "The Spanish Lady" (1 text, 1 tune, with perhaps half the song being floating material; much of it looks more like "The Barnyard of Delgaty" or something similar than like "Wheel of Fortune")
SHenry H641, p. 383, "Ripest of Apples" (1 text, 1 tune, a tiny fragment of two verses, one of which often occurs with this song while the other is associated primarily with "Carrickfergus." The tune is not "Carrickfergus")
Creighton/Senior, pp. 199-200, "Quaker's Courtship" (1 fragment, 1 tune, which might be either this or "The Quaker's Courtship")
Huntington-Whalemen, pp. 194-195, "Song on Courtship" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 149, "Wheel Of Fortune" (1 text)
Opie-Game 36, "Lady on the Mountain"; Opie-Game 87, "Spanish Lady" (7 texts, 3 tunes)
Baring-Gould-MotherGoose #290, pp. 168-169, "(Madam, I have come to court you)" (a short text, which might well be "The Quaker's Wooing" with beginning and end lost, but as it stands, it has no Quakers and must be filed here)
Newell, #6, "There She Stands, a Lovely Creature" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, WHEELFOR* DUBLNCTY* DUBLNCT2 SPALDTIN (VANDY2) (DUBLNCI2)
ADDITIONAL: Frank Harte _Songs of Dublin_, second edition, Ossian, 1993, pp. 48-49, "The Spanish Lady" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ray B. Browne, "Southern California Jump-Rope Rhymes: A Study in Variants" in Western Folklore, Vol. XIV, No. 1 (Jan 1955 (available online by JSTOR)), #22 p. 14 ("On a hillside stands a lady") (1 text)
Georgina Frederica Jackson, Charlotte Sophia Burne, editor, _Shropshire Folk-lore: A Sheaf of Gleanings_ (London, Trubner & Co, 1883, digitized by Google), pp. 509-510, ("Here stands a lady on a mountain"); pp. 551-552, "The Disdainful Lady" ("Yonder stands a comely creature") (2 texts)
Katharine (Tynan) Hinkson, "The Girls' Room" in Christabel R. Coleridge and Arthur Innes, editors, The Monthly Packet (London, 1897 ("Digitized by Google")), Vol. XCIII, p. 345, ("There stands a lady on the mountain")
G.F. Northall, English Folk-Rhymes (London, 1892 ("Digitized by Google")), p. 376, ("Here stands a lady on a mountain") (1 text)
F.W. Waugh, "Canadian Folk-Lore from Ontario" in The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. XXXI, No. 119 (Jan 1918 (available online by JSTOR)), #630 pp. 48-49 ("Here stands a lovely creature"),("Here sits a Spanish lady") (2 texts)
Marie Campbell, "Survivals of Old Folk Drama in the Kentucky Mountains" in The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. LI, No. 199 (Jan-Mar 1938 (available online by JSTOR)), pp. 18-22, "A Plough Monday Play"), especially pp. 21-22, "For Gold and Silver" ("'Kind miss, kind miss, go ask your mother")
J Woodfall Ebsworth, The Roxburghe Ballads, (Hertford, 1896 ("Digitized by Google")), Vol. VIII Part 2, pp. 851-852,"The Handsom' Woman" ("Yonder stan's a hansum woman, who she is I dunnot knaw")
Roud #542
RECORDINGS:
Seamus Ennis, "Dublin City" (on FSB2, FSB2CD)
Hector MacIsaac and Emma MacIsaac, "Galway City" (on NFHMacIsaac02)
BROADSIDES:
Murray, Mu23-y1:104, "The Wheel of Fortune," James Lindsay (Glasgow), 19C [an incredible mixture, with the "Wheel of Fortune" verse, though the rest seems an amalgam of thyme songs -- here spelled "time"]; also Mu23-y1:105, "The Wheel of Fortune," James Lindsay (Glasgow), 19C [even more mixture, with the "Wheel of Fortune" verse, a thyme stanza, a bit of "Fair and Tender Ladies," a "Queen of Heart" verse, and more]
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Keys of Canterbury"
cf. "No, John, No"
cf. "Madam, Madam, You Came Courting" (theme)
cf. "The Quaker's Courtship" (theme)
cf. "Killy's Den" (tune, per GreigDuncan4)
cf. "The Twelfth of May" (floating lyrics)
cf. "The Ripest Apple" (floating lyrics)
cf. "Now All You Lads" (lyrics)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Chester City
All I Want is a Handsome Man
As I Walked Up Through London City
Edinburgh City
Tinkle, Tinkle, Tra-La-La!
NOTES: Although several versions listed here mention Quakers in their titles (e.g. Eddy's text, also that printed by Sandburg), their texts make no mention of the Quaker, and so I list them here.
This obviously began life as a ballad, but was collected in New York as a playparty, and Belden also found it as a singing game. - RBW
Opie-Game 36 has three texts of the "Yonder stands ... who she is I do not know" version.
Opie-Game 87: "This song about an exile in disgrace was probably at the height of its popularity in Edwardian days." The "plot" in this case is that the singer, walking down the street, meets a Spanish or German lady with a baby in her arms. - BS
The text in the Silber-FSWB version is extremely fragmentary, and contains almost nothing of the plot described above. All that happens is that the man and woman meet; she washes her feet and dries them, then he laments young girls' deceiving ways and sings about numbers. - PJS
What Paul describes is fairly typical. The description above is of the fullest texts, but this ballad seems to be unusually good at losing pieces of itself. Often it descends into a purely lyrical piece -- and sometimes it seems to "re-ascend" by taking on a new ending of abandonment.
The existence of the numbers chorus ("Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen...") seems to be characteristic of a particular, very widespread, sub-version.
It appears likely that we can positively date this song to at least 1822, when John Randolph of Virginia asked a niece if she had heard a ballad with the verse
What care I for your golden treasures?
What care I for your house and land?
What care I for your costly pleasures?
So as I get but a handsome man.
For some reason, scholars have claimed this verse is from "Lord Randal." But it certainly appears to belong here. - RBW
The Ebsworth text is the oldest I have seen -- certainly older than Jackson/Burne -- but Ebsworth does not date it, possibly because it was just a side note to another ballad. The end of the Ebsworth text, following an editorial comment that "woman has the last word as usual," is
He took a pail, and I took a pail, and a-milking he went wi' me;
I said nout, and he said nout; but, ma faith! I think he'll ha' me."
"This is the finale," Ebsworth continues, "Robert Roberts, of Boston, is a safe authority to follow on old books and Lincolnshire customs: he writes, 'To take her pail and go with a girl to milking, is considered almost equal to a proposal of marriage.' This throws light on the popular song '"Where are you going to, my pretty maid?" "I'm going a milking, sir," she said. "May I go with you, my pretty maid?"' and her comprehensive reply, '"Yes, if you please, kind sir," she said.' When he adds, 'Then I cannot marry you!' she knows it breaks the implied contract."'"
The Jackson/Burne text ends
'But fare you well, my dearest creature,
Since I have no more to say.'
'O turn again, young man! I'll have you!'
But his answer was, 'Nay, nay!'
The Campbell text is very close to Sandburg's "Kind Miss," which is also from Kentucky. These texts have an unusual twist to their "Drowsy Sleeper" verse: in printed texts of Laws M4, and one of its sources, "I Will Put My Ship In Order," the lines following "... ask your mother If you my bride shall ever be" are "If she says 'No,' come back and tell me, And I'll no longer trouble thee"; in these two texts the lines are "If she says 'yes,' come back and tell me, If she says 'no,' we'll run away." [These lines are also in Hudson 37 -- another "Drowsy Sleeper"-"Wheel of Fortune" hybrid -- and two closely related recordings of Laws M4: Harry and Jeannie West, More Southern Mountain Folk Songs, Stinson SLP 74, Katy Dear"; Blue Sky Boys, "Katie Dear" (Bluebird B-7661, 1938) and Homer and Walter Callahan, "Katie Dear (Silver Dagger)" (Banner 33103/Melotone M-13071/Oriole 8353/Perfect 13017/Romeo 5353, c. 1934; Conqueror 9145, 1938; on GoingDown), identical texts.]
The Campbell text provides a rationale for this break: "Kind Miss" is a wooing song in a mummers' play. The form of the wooing song usually has a reasonable bid by the male to start an engagement, followed by rejection by the woman and, occasionally, a final acceptance. The "I'll no longer trouble thee" line would end the song prematurely, while the "we'll run away" line leads to the normal wooing song form. Of course, the "Drowsy Sleeper" verse insertion is not necessary for "Wheel of Fortune" to be used as a wooing song, but once the verse was inserted, its form was likely changed to suit its new function. For more on "wooing songs" in mummers' plays, see "Sweet Moll."
The Williams-Thames chorus -- "March away, march away, Trumpets sound and cymbals play. March away, march away, To the merry little fife and drum." -- is from the chorus of "The Merry Little Soldier" (see The Universal Songster or Museum of Mirth (London, 1834 ("Digitized by Google")), Vol I, p. 109, "The Merry Little Soldier" ("I'm a merry little soldier") (1 text)). - BS
Last updated in version 4.1
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Mainly Norfolk
Madam, I Have Come to Court You
[ Roud 542 ; G/D 8:1588 ; Ballad Index CrMa121 ; trad.]
Peggy Seeger sang Madam, I Have Come to Court You in 1962 on her Topic EP Early in the Spring. Angela Carter commented:
Peggy Seeger has based this comic courting song on I'm Going Away to Texas (Vance Randolph, Ozark Folk Songs, Vol. 3) with additional verses from other variants. The suitor is rejected very firmly several times until he mentions money.
The Outside Track sang Madam, Madam in 2010 on their CD Curious Things Given Wings. They commented in their liner notes:
The melody and some verses of this song come from the singing of William Gilkie of Sambro, Nova Scotia, who sang it to Canadian folklorist, Helen Creighton in 1949. The song originally came from Ettrick Valley in Scotland. Lauren MacColl's tune, The Dealer, sews the dialogue together between the unfortunate young man and the object of his affection (Alan and the poor mermaid).
The Unthanks sang Madam in 2015 on their CD Mount the Air.
Lyrics
The Outside Track sing Madam, Madam The Unthanks sing Madam
A maiden walking in her garden
But her name I do not know.
I'll go and court her for her beauty,
Let the answer be yes or no.
“Oh Madam, madam, I came courting,
Your kind favour for to gain.
I will kindly entertain you
If you will not call me names.”
“Madam, madam, I'll come a-courting
That your favour I may gain.
Sit ye down, you're kindly welcome
Then perhaps you may call again.
“So to me you came a-courting,
My kind favour for to gain.
It would give me greatest pleasure
If you would never call again.”
“Madam, I've got ships on the ocean,
Madam, I've got house and land.
Madam, I've a world of pleasure,
All will be at your command.”
“Madam, I have gold and silver,
Madam, I have houses and land.
Madam, I have a world of pleasure
And leave it all at your command.”
“What care I for your ships on the ocean?
What care I for your houses and lands?
What care I for your gold and silver?
All I want is a handsome man.”
“Don't tell me of your gold and silver,
Don't tell me of your house and land.
Don't tell me of your world of pleasure,
All I want is a handsome man.”
“Madam, you speak very boldly
When this young man comes to call.
When the nights are cold and frosty
In my loving arms you'd fall.”
“When the mountains turn to valley,
and the rivers turn to seas,
When my Polly stops a-milking
Come again and ask me please.”
Did you ever see the grass in the morning,
All bedecked with jewels rare?
Did you ever see a handsome lassie,
Diamonds sparkling in her hair?
Did you ever see a copper kettle,
Mended with an old tin can?
Did you ever see a handsome lassie
Married off to an ugly man?
Ripest apples are soonest rotten,
Hottest love is soonest cold.
Young men's words are soon forgotten,
Pretty maid, don't be too bold.
Handsome men are out of fashion,
Maidens beauty soon decays.
You pick a flower off a bright summer morning
Before the evening will fade away.
After cowslips there come roses,
After night-time there comes day.
After false love comes a true love,
So our time will pass away.
First come the oxlip then the cruel,
Then the pink and then the may.
Then come a new love, then come a true love
Before the evening will fade away.
Once I lay on a young man's pillow
Which I thought it was my own.
Now I do lay under the willow
Over the sake of a false young man.