British & Other Versions 8A. "Oh No John," "No Sir" and the "she answered No" songs; Roud 126 ("No John No," "No Sir No,")
[In the "Oh No, John," "No Sir," "Spanish Merchant's Daughter" and the "she answered No" ballads and songs, a maid when confronted by a wooer, answers "No" to his advances. The "trick" to the "No" songs is that the wooer eventually asks questions expecting a "No" answer so that he wins over the maid. The humorous, sometimes bawdy, "No" courting songs evolved out of bawdy broadsides and print versions from the 1600s and 1700s which eventually became, by the mid-to-late 1800s, the well-known song titles: "Oh No, John," and "No Sir."
The following is a list of some of the important print versions in the UK during the 1660s and 1700s (see Main Headnotes for texts):
Aa. "Lady why doth love torment you" from "a manuscript version of about 1635-40, in Bodleian MS Ashmole 38 (a collection of single sheets from various sources bound together)." ref. Bruce Olson.
b. "Consent at Last" from Pills to Purge Melancholy, commencing in 1700; (III, p. 82, 1719), with a tune.
c. "To a Lady" Janck Horntip Collection, no date given, no chorus. See in Supplemental versions below.
B. "A Warning for Maides," attributed to Richard Crimsal and "printed at London for John Wright, the younger, dwelling at the upper end of the Old-Bayley," dated circa 1636.
C. "The Dumb Lady; Or, NO, no, not I; Ile Answer," a broadside in the British Library- Roxburghe 2.111. It was printed for P. Brooksy at the Golden-Ball in Pye-Corner between 1672-84.
D. "The Denying Lady," a broadside printed by A. Milbourn, at the Stationers-Arms in Green-Arbor about 1684.
E. "Shall I? Shall I? No No," a broadside by Tobias Bowne printed by Phillip Brooksby, London c. 1684.
Fa. "Tom and Doll; or, the Modest Maid's Delight" written by Tom D'Urfey, printed among his 'Choice Songs,' p. 16, in 1684. Reprinted with music not only in the ' 180 Loyal Songs' of 1685 and 1694, p. 252, but aleo in the second volume of 'Pills to Purge Melancholy,' 1719 edition, p. 27.
b. Song 1154. [Tom and Dolly] published in "The Aviary: Or, Magazine of British Melody. Consisting of a Collection of one thousand three hundred and forty-four songs," London, 1745.
c. "Tom and Dolly" from a Dublin songbook; "A collection of songs: With some originals," 1769.
d. "No Tom No" from Gardham's broadside collection M85738- single sheet, no imprint, 1800s
G. "No, No" sung by Mrs. Wrighten at Vauxhall in the 1770s. It's printed in "The Choice Spirit's Chaplet: Or, a Poesy from Parnassus" by George Alexander Stevens, 1771 as Song 144.
Of these "she answered no" versions A and G are closest to the "modern" versions titled "Oh No John" and "No Sir" which were printed and collected in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Ab, "Consent at Last," dated 1719, appears in Pills to Purge Melancholy, a series commencing in 1700 in Volume III, p. 82 with a tune. It goes as follows (original text):
Consent at Last.
Ladys, why doth Love torment you?
Cannot I your Grief remove?
Is there none that can content you
With the sweet delights of Love
O No, no, no, no, no: O, No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Beauty in a perfect Measure,
Hath the Love and wish of all:
Dear, then shall I wait the Pleasure,
That commands my Heart and all:
O No, &c.
If I grieve, and you can ease me,
With you be so fiercely bent,
Having wherewithal to please me,
Must I still be Discontent?
O No, &c.
If I am your faithful Servant,
And my Love does still remain;
Will you think it ill deserved,
To be favour'd for my pain?
O No, &c.
If I should then crave a Favour,
Which your Lips invite me to,
Will you think it ill Behaviour,
Thus to steal a Kiss or two?
O No, &c.
All Amazing Beauty's Wonder,
May I presume your Breast to touch?
Or to feel a little under,
Will you think I do too much?
O No, &c.
Once more fairest, let me try ye[]
Now my wish is fully sped,
If all Night, I would lye by ye,
Shall I be refus'd your Bed?
O No, &c.
In this version the suitor has adeptly figured out how to have his way with the lass even with a "No" answer. "Consent at Last" was called the original of the "she answered No" songs by early music authority Bruce Olson[1].
Another example of an early "No" courting song is "No, No" as sung by Mrs. Wrighten at Vauxhall. It's printed as a song in "The Choice Spirit's Chaplet: Or, a Poesy from Parnassus" by George Alexander Stevens, 1771.
[No! No!] SONG 144.
THAT I might not be plagued with the nonsense of men,
I promis'd my mother again and again
To say as she bids me wherever I go,
And to all that they ask, or would haw, tell 'em No.
I really believe I have frighten'd a score:
They'll want to be with me, I warrant no more,
And I own I'm not sorry for serving them so;
Were the same thing to do, I again would say No.
For a shepherd I like, with more courage and art,
Won't let me alone, tho' I bid him depart;
Such questions he puts since I answer him so,
That he makes me mean Yes, tho' my words are still No.
He ask'd, did I hate him, or think him too plain;
(Let me die if he is not a clever young swain,)
If he ventur'd a kiss, if I from him would go,
Then he press'd my young lips, while I blush'd and said No.
He ask'd if my heart to another was gone;
If I'd have him to leave me, or cease to love on;
If I meant my life long to answer him so;
I faulter'd, and sigh'd, and reply'd to him, No.
This morning an end to his courtship he made;
Will Phillis live longer a virgin he said;
If I press you to church, will you scruple to go
In a hearty good-humour I answer'd, No, no.
This ending is similar to the ending in the composite version published by Cecil Sharp of "Oh No John" which begins:
O hark! I hear the church bells ringing,
Will you come to be my wife?
The first print stanza of "No, No" also sung by Mrs. Wrighten at Vauxhall is similar to the "Spanish lady" stanza found in both "No Sir and "Oh No John[2]:"
My father was a Spanish merchant
And before he went to sea,
He told me to be sure and answer No!
To all you said to me.
The mysterious Spanish Lady is also courted by a suitor in a variety of different, possibly related, versions. Here are five specific variants and uses of the Spanish Lady, some are used in the "she answered No" courting songs:
Spanish Lady I: The opening first and second stanzas are similar to or derived from a 1776 bawdy song, "The Ride in London," which has been reworked with "The Spanish Lady" replacing the "pretty maid." These two stanzas are followed by stanzas of "Madam" sometimes with the "Twenty-Eighteen" chorus and/or other choruses. See Greig-Duncan for Scottish examples collected c.1908.
Spanish Lady II: The Spanish Lady as referred to "No Sir," "Oh No, John" and the "she answered No" songs. She is the daughter of a Spanish merchant, Spanish sailor or captain who told the Spanish lady to say "No" to all advances. She is not usually called, "The Spanish Lady" but is simply the daughter of a Spanish sailor.
Spanish Lady III: The Spanish Lady found as the poem of the same title by Irish poet Joseph Campbell based off the first two stanzas he collected of Spanish Lady I. Campbell's poem is sung and has entered tradition and is sometime sung with the "Twenty-Eighteen" chorus and/or other choruses.
Spanish Lady IV: The name "Spanish Lady" is found replacing "lovely creature" in a number of versions including children's game songs. Examples include "Here sits a Spanish lady" [JAF, Ontario, 1909 children's song] and Wehman's "Spanish Lady" printed in Universal Songster No. 39. See also "Spanish Lady" in Cox, Folk Songs of the South, 1925.
Spanish Lady V: An arrangement with new text of Spanish Lady for piano and voice by Irish composer Herbert Hughes. It was based on the first two stanzas (1911) supplied by Joseph Campbell from tradition. Hughes text also has entered tradition.
There are at least two versions of Spanish Lady I with a "she answered No" chorus (see Bell Robertson, Aberdeenshire, and Andrew Hawes, New Hampshire, US). The opening stanzas (first and sometimes second) of the Spanish Lady I are similar to or derived from a 1776 bawdy song, "The Ride in London," which has been reworked with "The Spanish lady" replacing the "pretty maid. The remainder of the stanzas are from "Madam" and other 1800s "No" songs.
Here's a Scottish composite version of "Spanish Lady I" with the "lady answered No" chorus that was sung by Bell Robertson of New Pitsligo (b.1841). Bell's version may, through her mother and maternal grandmother of Strichen, date back to the 1700s or early 1800s. It was collected by Grieg about 1907 and is version I from Greig-Duncan Collection, vol. 4.
1. Walking down through London city,
Between twelve and one at night,
There I saw a Spanish lady
Wash herself by candle light.
CHORUS: She said Aye, no, no, no,
She said Aye, no, no, no,
She said Aye, no, no, no,
Still the lady answered No.
2 Wi' a basin full of water
And a towel in her hand.
And a candle on the table,
Like an angel she did stand.
CHORUS
3 Madam, I am come to court you,
If I could your favour gain.
And gin ye mak me kindly welcome
Maybe I come back again.
CHORUS
4. My father he's a wealthy merchant
He has lately gone from home
He left me strict directions
Never to say Aye to none.
CHORUS
5. Saw ye ever a copper kettle,
Marriet with a brazen pan,
Saw ye ever a Spanish Lady,
Would refuse an Englishman?
CHORUS
The typical Scottish versions of Spanish Lady have the opening stanzas of the bawdy 1776 song rewritten as found Bell's stanza 1 and 2. They are followed by stanzas of "Madam" and in Bell's version there is only one-- stanza 3. The next stanza is The Spanish merchant stanza found in both "Oh No John" and "No Sir," while the last stanza is found in "Galway City" and some other versions of Spanish Lady.
Variants of the "she answered No" songs with the Spanish merchant stanza are usually versions of Spanish Lady II. Whether that use of a person of the Spanish nationality (Spanish merchant) is related to Spanish Lady versions I, III, IV and V, or is a coincidence, is unknown. It would seem more likely the Spanish merchant and other uses of Spanish Lady come from an early related and unknown version. Even the first appearance of the Spanish lady as the courted woman or woman obsessed in the Irish rewrites of the 1900s is also not known. The Spanish Lady must have been introduced in the late 1700s or early 1800s rewrites of the 1776 bawdy song, "The Ride in London," which have not been found in print.
The modern versions of the "she answered No" songs are known in the UK mainly by two titles, "Oh No John" and "No Sir." An arrangement by Englishwoman Mary Wakefield of "No Sir" taken from "an American governess" was published with music was in "The Peterson Magazine," Volumes 79-80, Philadelphia, 1881. Here's the text of "No Sir" from: "Songs and Ballads: 96 Songs - Words and Music W.F. Shaw," 1882. It's also found in Shaw's "Gems of Minstrel Song" also dated 1882 and later in Delaney's Song Book (New York).
No Sir!
Words and Music Arr. by A. M. Wakefield
1. Tell me one thing, tell me truly,
Tell me why you scorn me so?
Tell me why when asked a question,
You will always answer no?
CHORUS: No sir! No sir! No sir! No-- sir!
No sir! No sir! No sir! No.
2. My father was a Spanish merchant
And before he went to sea,
He told me to be sure and answer No!
To all you said to me.
CHORUS
3. If I was walking in the garden,
Plucking flow'rs all wet with dew,
Tell me will you be offended,
If I walk and talk with you?
CHORUS
4. If when walking in the garden,
I should ask you to be mine,
and should tell you that I loved you,
would you then my heart decline?
CHORUS
This print version of "No Sir" was reprinted a number of times and was "very popular." Some stanzas (especially the first two) have appeared in versions from the UK usually mixed with stanzas of "Oh No John." It's possible that the chorus of "Oh no John" was modeled after one of the many "she answered No" songs such as "Tom and Dolly" (No Tom, No):
But she answer'd No, no, no, no Tom,
No Tom, no Tom, no Tom no.
"Oh No John" was collected by Cecil Sharp in 1907 from William Wooley of Bincombe, Over Stowey, but the print version was heavily revised. Sharp compares the melody to Billy Taylor and relates that the theme is similar to Keys of Heaven, another courting song-- which should be considered a different song.
Oh No John (first two stanzas from William Wooley of Bincombe in 1907, composite of 4 versions collected by Cecil Sharp)
On yonder hill there stands a creature,
Who she is I do not know.
I'll go and court her for her beauty;
She must answer Yes or No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
My father was a Spanish captain -
Went to sea a month ago,
First he kissed me, then he left me -
Bid me always answer No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
O Madam in your face is beauty,
On your lips red roses grow,
Will you take me for your lover?
Madam, answer Yes or No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
0 Madam, I will give you jewels,
I will make you rich and free,
1 will give you silken dresses;
Madam, will you marry me?
Oh No, John! No John! No, John! No!
O Madam since you are so cruel,
And that you do scorn me so,
If I may not be your lover,
Madam, will you let me go?
O No John! No John! No John! No!
O hark! I hear the church bells ringing,
Will you come to be my wife?
Or dear Madam, have you settled
To live single all your life?
O No John! No John! No John! No!
Woolsey's original version has a "garter" stanza and is much racier which is why Sharp changed it. His first stanza is taken from the opening stanza of "Madam, I Am Come to Court You" which shows the song's relatedness. Here's Woolsey's original text from Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at Clare College, Cambridge) (CJS2/9/1285):
Oh No John
On yonder hill there stands a creature,
Who she is I do not know.
I'll go and court her for her beauty;
She must answer Yes or No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
On her bosom were bunches of posies,
On her breast where flowers grow,
If I've a chance to touch that posy
She must answer Yes or No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
My father was a Spanish captain,
Went to sea but a month ago,
And the very last time we kissed and parted,
He always bid me answer No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
"Madam, shall I tie your garter?
Tie it a little above your knee,
If my hand should slip a little farther
Would you think it amiss of me?"
O No John! No John! No John! No!
One night they went to bed we together
There they lay till cocks did crow
Then they sport till the daylight was breaking
Now it's time for us to go.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
The garter stanza and last stanza of Woolsey's original are found in other traditional versions of "Oh No John" which sometimes appear with a "No Sir" chorus. Sharp's composite version of "O No, John" was first published in Folk Songs from Somerset in 1911. It was republished in One Hundred English Folksongs (1916) pp. 154-155 with a different last stanza and again in Novello's School Songs and in Vol. 2 of the Selected Edition of English Folk Songs in 1921. Sharp's popular arrangement was reprinted many times and sung with great acclaim by the Fuller Sisters from Portsmouth, England in their America tours.
Because the "No Sir" chorus was frequently used for the same stanzas associated with "Oh No John" in the UK the songs have usually been lumped. "No Sir" is usually identified with the Wakefield arrangement whose stanzas are sung in the US and Canada. The identifying stanzas of "Oh No John" are different except for the Spanish merchant stanza indicating both songs had a common ancestry.
"Oh No John" is English and has two specific types. The best known, Type A, is the composite by Sharp. The other variants are Type B, made up of the traditional versions. Both types sometimes use the opening first and possibly second stanzas of Madam. Type B has variants of these three stanzas as found in Woolsey's original text:
On her bosom were bunches of posies,
On her breast where flowers grow,
If I've a chance to touch that posy
She must answer Yes or No.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
"Madam, shall I tie your garter?
Tie it a little above your knee,
If my hand should slip a little farther
Would you think it amiss of me?"
O No John! No John! No John! No!
One night they went to bed we together
There they lay till cocks did crow
Then they sport till the daylight was breaking
Now it's time for us to go.
O No John! No John! No John! No!
Clearly The White and Hopper version is "Oh No John" with a "No sir" Chorus. Stanza 2 of the White version is another bawdy type stanza that belongs to the "Oh No John" ur-ballad[3]. The conclusion is "Oh No John" usually has these characteristics:
1. evolved from a bawdy English "she answered No" song. Type B is usually bawdy.
2. used the opening stanza or stanzas from "Madam, I Have Come to Court You." Does not usually have the "Madam I have gold and Silver" stanzas or other stanzas of "Madam."
3. was sanitized by Sharp to become the popular "Oh No John" type A.
4. was not widely known outside of England and was not brought to America. The American versions all appear to have been derived from Sharp's twp published composite versions.
5. does not usually have the "garden" stanzas found in print and traditional versions of No Sir.
6. has the Spanish merchant/sailor/Captain stanza which also is found in No Sir.
The Oh No John chorus was not widely known and few traditional versions were collected. Cecil Sharp collected four[4] but the total of original traditional versions is less than a dozen with most just fragments. There is no early history of the "Oh No John" chorus which was first collected in 1906 and also appears "No John No."
The "No Sir" songs were English then American-- see also the version from Tristan de Cuna, originally a British colony[5]. "No Sir" has a wider degree of variety in England and is sometimes combined with the "she answered No" chorus. In England the stanzas of "Oh No John" (see White, Larner and Copper versions) are sometimes sung with the "No Sir" chorus. In general No Sir is associated with the two garden stanzas found similarly in the print version:
3. If I was walking in the garden,
Plucking flow'rs all wet with dew,
Tell me will you be offended,
If I walk and talk with you?
CHORUS
4. If when walking in the garden,
I should ask you to be mine,
and should tell you that I loved you,
would you then my heart decline?
There are also two basic types of versions of "No Sir." Type A is the popular print version, "No Sir," which was arranged from text collected from an American governess by Mary Wakefield and published in 1881, entered tradition and has been collected both here and stanzas are also found abroad (see: Emily Bishop, 1952). There is also a possibility, however unlikely, that the four-stanza type A with "No Sir" chorus was the standard traditional text before it was printed. Type B versions are traditional and similar to Type A but have at least one stanza not found in Type A. While it may be assumed that type B is the older version from whence Type A was born, the additional stanza or stanzas could have been added to the four Wakefield stanzas. Examples of this older tradition can be seen above in both the Bell Robertson version and the MS version collected by Sharp in Kentucky in 1917. The conclusion is "No Sir" usually has these characteristics:
1. has the two "garden" stanzas
2. has a wider variety of chorus variations and is sometimes mixed with "she answered No" choruses.
3. has the "tell me truly/why you scorn me" stanza usually before the Spanish captain stanza.
4. has the Spanish merchant/Captain stanza in common with Oh No John.
5. has "chickens crowed for day" or "We lay there till the cocks did crow" ending stanza found in the US and UK.
Since the chorus is occasionally interchangeable some versions of "Oh No John" (see, for example, the version from Norfolk fisherman Sam Larner titled "No Sir" and the 1903 version from Lucy White of Somerset) which have Oh No John bawdy stanzas, instead have the "No Sir" chorus.
Some Conclusions
The modern versions of "No Sir" and "Oh No John" are identified by their choruses. The "No Sir" chorus is interchangeable in the UK. This means versions with the identifying stanzas of 'Oh No John" sometimes have a "No Sir" chorus. See the 1903 White/Hopper version and Sam Larner's version as examples.
"Oh No John" is a bawdy relic remade from the bawdy "No" songs that preceded it. Only a half dozen traditional versions with this title have been collected and only two are reasonably complete. The versions after Sharp's composites were published (1911 and 1916) are nearly all versions based on these two composites and may not traditional[6]. Sharp's 1916 composite has a different last stanza.
The antecedents of both the modern No Sir (Wakefield) and Oh No John (Sharp) are unknown and only a few versions (including Bell Robertson's and Lucy Garrison's) have shed light on the possible earlier text or texts. Both songs share the Spanish merchant stanza. Because No Sir is known by the Wakefield version in the US and Canada, her arrangement should be considered a different song even though it has a stanza in common.
"Oh No John," in particular, has been associated with the different song, "Madam I Am Come to Court You" found in Woolsey's version and included in Sharp's composites. Stanzas of "Madam" as well as the "Spanish Lady" opening stanzas have been found with the "she answered No" choruses.
R. Matteson 2017]
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Footnotes:
1. The late Bruce Olson, whose early music research has been partially preserved online, made this comment in a post on the Mudcat Discussion Forum.
2. The Spanish merchant stanza is the identifying stanza for Spanish lady II.
3. An "Oh No John" Ur-ballad has been created -- see additional versions, Main Headnotes.
4. Sharp's versions are Woolsey, Tucker, Beale and Hezeltine.
5. In 1816, the United Kingdom annexed the islands, ruling them from the Cape Colony in South Africa (Wiki).
6. I consider the Copper family version to be traditional even if it was influenced by the Sharp composites.
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CONTENTS: (To access individual texts click on the highlighted blue title or on the title attached to this page on the left-hand column).
1) Lady, why doth love torment you?- MS (Lon) c.1635
2) A Warning for Maides- Richard Crimsal (Lon) c.1636
3) The Dumb Lady- (Lon) 1672 broadside; P. Brooksy
The Denying Lady- (Lon) 1684 broadside A.Milbourn
Shall I? Shall I? No No- Tobias Bowne (Lon) c.1684
Consent at Last- (Lon) 1719 D'Urfey's Wit & Mirth
Song 1154 (Tom and Dolly)- print (Lon) 1745 Aviary
Tom and Dolly- songbook (Dub) 1769
Song 144 (No, No)- Mrs. Wrighten (Lon) 1771
No Sir!- Lucy White & L. Hooper (Som) 1903 Sharp
No, Sir! No- Mrs. Bowring (Dor) 1906 Hammond
No Sir, No- Greening (Dors) 1906 Composite
No! John- William Wooley (Som) 1907 Sharp MS
No John, No- William Tucker (Som) 1907 Sharp MS
Spanish Lady- Bell Robertson (Aber) 1907 Greig I
Dublin City- Georgina Reid (Aber) 1908 Greig F
No John No!- James Beale (Kent) 1908 Sharp
No Sir!- Alfred Emery (Som) 1908 Sharp MS
No Sir No- Joseph Read (wilt) 1909 Gardiner
Oh No, John- composite (Som) 1911 Sharp
No Sir, John- Mrs. Hezeltine (Corn) 1913 Sharp MS
No Sir- Frances Repetto (TC) 1938 Munch
No Sir- Emily Bishop (Glou) 1952 Kennedy
No Sir, No Sir- Sam Larner (Norf) 1958 MacColl
No John, No- Ron & Bob Copper (Sus) 1961 REC
No Sir, No Sir- Beryl Walker (AU) 1942 BK
No John No- Archer Goode (Glou) 1975 Davies
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Missing versions:
"No John, No" Vocals – Blanche Wood